Inside a Life in Broadcasting: A Conversation About Radio, Voice, and Longevity

This episode started as a catch-up.
 It turned into a time capsule.
 And it still holds up.

In this pilot episode, I sit down with longtime Dallas broadcaster and voice actor Keith Andrews for an unfiltered, nearly two-hour conversation spanning more than three decades in radio and voice work. What began as a twenty-year reunion quickly became a deep dive into the craft, culture, and compromises of broadcast media.

We talk about Keith’s origins in radio, what it takes to survive as formats change and jobs disappear, and how broadcasters adapt when an industry over a century old collides with the digital age. This isn’t a highlight reel. It’s an honest look at longevity, relevance, and the quiet skills that separate people who last from people who burn out.

This episode also explores what radio still does better than almost any medium. Connecting with audiences. Telling compelling stories. Building trust through voice. Those fundamentals don’t disappear just because the devices change.

If you’ve worked in media, broadcasting, voice acting, or any creative field that’s been disrupted by technology, this conversation will feel familiar. And if you’re newer to the show, this episode captures the long arc behind the perspective that shapes everything that followed.

This was the beginning.
 And in many ways, it still explains the whole project.

For Dallas–Fort Worth listeners: this conversation will sound especially familiar. We reference stations, formats, and eras that shaped local radio, including Merge 93.3 FM, The Bone 93.3 FM, 99.5 The Wolf, and Sportsradio 1310 The Ticket. If you grew up with these signals in your car or on the job site, you’ll recognize the voices, the culture, and the moments we’re talking about. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro, Catchup
• 4:59 Career Origins, How'd You Get Started?
• 12:22 The Path to Digital Imaging, From Reel to Reel to the DAW
• 24:10 Heading to Dallas, Enter The Bossman
• 31:25 Air Talent vs Behind the Scenes, Choices
• 44:42 Merging into The Bone 93.3 FM In Flux
• 54:52 The Susquehanna Effect and Cumulus
• 1:03:36 Talk Radio Turns 100, Podcasting is Talk Radio With a Different Name
• 1:12:29 From Radio to Streaming to Webinars?
• 1:19:05 Voice Acting
• 1:30:02 It's Who You Know
• 1:36:02 Time Flies

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Emerge933.net. 93.

George: 0:08

Join us for the premiere episode of Glittering Prizes and Endless Compromises, where we talk about all things broadcasting, podcasting, voice acting, and content creation, and the spirit of radio. Joining the podcast will be Keith Andrews, longtime Dallas radio broadcaster and voice actor. If you've turned a radio dial in Dallas Fort Worth in the last 20 years, you've definitely heard Keith's voice on the airwaves. Well, we've thrown it back 20 years talking about Merge Radio, the big format switch to 93.3 the bone, 20 years ago this month. Join us and join the conversation. Just hit us up on social media. If you were there or want to contribute something to the conversation, we'd love to hear from you. I'm George Tenike. I'm your host, and we'll see you on the air.

SPEAKER_02: 0:54

20 years. Wow. I was the creative imaging director of uh merge 93.3 and then 93.3 the bone. And I had a little bone-shaped card. I still have one somewhere. Classic Texas Rock that rocks. That's right. Like the hat you have. Classic. I like that. We changed that. We that that didn't last too long, that logo. I know we we changed that for some reason. But our listeners were boneheads. And um they certainly were, but they were very, very um religiously devoted to the station.

George: 1:25

So well, it was a big deal in your life if you got a shout-out from Jeff K and at the Bone of the Weekend party.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31

Right. That's right. Then we all the boneheads. That's right. Then we had my friend Jennifer Reed came along. Um then Yvonne stayed for a little bit, too. We were talking about that.

George: 1:40

She did have her own show.

SPEAKER_02: 1:42

Yeah. She did. Then Jennifer kind of came in, and then Jennifer was on at night. Then Jennifer ended up kind of taking over for Yvonne.

George: 1:48

And then I almost forgot about her.

SPEAKER_02: 1:50

Yeah.

George: 1:51

So many great memories, but I mean, it's uh so great to have you here. It's been so long since we've talked and we've kept it up with each other on um social media, but it's just not the same. So this is our inaugural conversation, our pilot episode.

SPEAKER_02: 2:05

Yeah, there's a lot to there's a lot to talk about, you know. We need to need to bring Scott, Scott, and Squeaky back here, too. Scott, Scott Strong and John Winchester, we were talking about.

George: 2:15

Some serious characters, but we do need to chat with all of them as well. But I'm happy we've kicked this thing off with just you and me talking about the old days and you know, making it today, and that's kind of what it's all about. We're just trying to.

SPEAKER_02: 2:27

We need to bring it back. Um, because the thing about the bone that made it so big was people people were, and I wasn't I'm had moved here um when's the one 2002? So I hadn't even I've been here a little over a year from Boston, so I don't know the history of Dallas Radio. I do now, but I didn't really know the history of Dallas Radio when I got here. And um the bone reminded people of you know radio of of a bygone era. Um the the zoo was the station, I guess. Uh I don't know. Uh that's where our friend Mike Reiner was, I believe. And people like that were all on that station, right? The legend, KZEW, yeah, Mike. KZEW, Mike. That's where he got his turn, for sure. Yeah, all those people. So um the bone kind of brought back that excitement to radio. And I I want to believe that it's not too late to bring the the excitement back some other way. I mean, I you and I get we just we just start talking about this stuff and we get you know Paul starts racing. We're excited, you know? It's true though.

George: 3:26

It's like that's what it's all about. Yeah. It's it's our art form. So uh, you know, this is the first time we've sat down and spoken in tw more than twenty years. Like I don't even remember the last time we worked together. I guess like I I have no idea. I left the Susquehanna Nation in 04. You were still there that long? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 3:46

So you were way through the bone.

George: 3:48

I graduated from UNT and went on. I I left the ticket in Susquehanna just because I needed benefit, so I went to work for for Jesus at Salem Radio Network with Jumbarto.

SPEAKER_02: 3:59

I did that briefly. Did you know that? I did that. I was a production guy at um for uh what was the station? Case guy, and and the other one, the religious one. Yeah, yeah. The word, yeah, the word.

George: 4:11

Well, it's so funny because uh Salem became um Susquehanna West because so many people that used to work there went to work at Salem Radio Network, Jim Bartow, Ken Mendez, Psycho Day, Kenko, uh you, me. Uh-huh. Uh so but your time, you I think we were in different time frames there.

SPEAKER_02: 4:35

Yeah, you weren't there when I was.

George: 4:37

I was oh four to oh six, and then I went to work for Yahoo, and then I came back for like less than a year from 10 to 11. Oh, really? Yeah, 2010 to 2011. So but uh it I I was gonna try to uh refresh my memory a little bit since we haven't talked and uh spoken in so long. I was trying to remember when the first time we met was, and like I know you didn't grow up in Dallas, you came from Boston and you started your career there. So talk about um your first radio job and like how did you end up on the air? And did you always know you wanted to do that?

SPEAKER_02: 5:12

Just I knew, yeah. I was a I was a dorky little kid, um fascinated with radio. I'm I'm of the age where um like AM radio is still kind of uh the top 40 outlet in Boston. I remember I remember listening to WRKO 680, which is still there. I think it's a it's a sports, pretty sure it's a sports talk station now. This back when there's still some AM stations that played. And I was I was a kid, I was young at this point. Um, but I remember um having like a 45 record collection, which are, you know, if you know what those you know what those are, yeah. Of course. Okay, so I'm a little older than you, but um I had uh and I had the little two uh the Panasonic Tude Loop Radio, which was looked like a lopsided bagel kind of. It was this round radio and Panasonic was kind of cutting edge. Right. And uh I had that. So I listened to W R K O W M E X, and then um my dad bought a house in Martha's Vineyard when I was young, so that was kind of like a summer home, and we'd go there and I could get the um WPRO from Providence, and it was like, you know, so I was so fascinated. Like being able to hear stations from outside of Boston was like, you know, like exciting. I mean, it's just so weird things that thrilled me when I was a kid, like the ferries that we took there and radio stations and um and this is the 1970s were yeah, this would be the 70s, yeah. And so um, so I had so I bought a tape recorder as a kid, and I'd literally play DJ. I pretended I was uh you know guy and I would play it. Obviously, it wasn't connected inwardly, it was just you know, I was recording and my little um stereo at the time. I had a remember that stereo too. I want to say it was like a um a realistic, you know, all in one kind of thing. It had like the A-track on it, but it had the turntable on top. Radio Shack. Um Radio Shack, yeah, it was right right here in Fort Worth. Um, and uh, and so it had the yeah, it was an all-in-one and uh with the A-track. And I remember, but I played DJ and I would um I don't have you know any of those cassettes, you know, thank God. But um I uh I I did that and then I just kind of did that like probably a little later than I I could have. My brother had like my brother bought like a really cool component stereo system. They were like Pioneer and and uh I think it was all Pioneer Components. And so I would go, I would sneak down there like on Saturday night because I was still young enough. I don't think I had a social life on Saturday night yet, and I'd go down there and and kind of do like a radio show using his his thing because it sounded better, you know? Right and then I eventually got my own components. And I think when I got I stopped doing that probably in like eighth grade, I think maybe eighth or ninth grade seemed kind of silly. And then um when I got through high school and I was communications major at UMass, which is a our huge state university, and so I um I was I had a radio show on uh WZZZ, which was the dorm area. You uh UMass Amherst is this huge, it's a huge college, and um this one living area, which is kind of the party living area. Of course, I lived in that the dorm a dorm in that area. They had 22-floor towers, and so ZZZ was the station for the you know, no FCC regulations or anything, just the for that area, you know. So I do have a tape, I do still have a tape of myself on there, and I got a pretty ferocious Boston accent. Um not not quite Wahlberg, but it was still like you know, it was still still pretty dead on. So uh, and like the phone would ring, you know, in the studio you'd hear the phone ringing, and you know, my friend friends would call up requests and I'd put the you know the phone just old school like that. And then so so what you what year did you start at UMass? The fall of 82. Wow, okay. Yeah, so um I'm getting up there. So um I uh but I was on WMUA, which was the big college station there in Western Mass. So I mean in UMass Amherst, and it kind of reaches the whole valley and stuff. So um I forget when my show was, I don't even know. But then then I went to be a ski bum out of out of college. I didn't know what I was gonna do. I went to Aspen, Colorado. Um I didn't know that. Walked into a couple stations there, um, and I got a job at KSPN, which is still there, um, which is like a triple A station, sure enough. And that that's been kind of my my thing, the eclectic, you know, rock format. And so uh KSPN, late 80s, um, loads of fun. I remember like, you know, Greg, Greg Allman coming in the station and you know, shit face and uh Hunter Thompson and all these you know locals. I think Jimmy Buffett came in. Well, these people just dropped by the the station. It was kind of cool. And so um, and so I was on at night and um and I was living the life, but I also I I also kind of remember having to have three jobs. I think I worked at a health club called the Aspen Club, then I worked on one of the mountains to get a ski pass. And so you kind of had to have like three jobs out there to survive. It was very expensive. I remember got paid eight bucks an hour to be on the air there. So I'm sure back then that was seemed like a little more, but it was Aspen. And so from there I went um went back to Martha's Vineyard, where my folks were. I worked at the station there, WMBY, which is still there. Um, and then I went to Kalamazoo, Michigan, worked six months at a classic rock station overnight. Um, I'm not I I was of the of the mind that you had to go to the middle of nowhere, you know, to kind of make it before you went somewhere big. And I think that was the mentality.

SPEAKER_03: 10:42

That was how it was.

SPEAKER_02: 10:43

Yeah. And now these kids out of college were, you know, coming. I mean, even when I got to you in in Dallas here, there were like some kids out of the doing overnights who are, you know, fresh out of college. I'm like, hey, wait a minute. I had to. So but Kalamazoo was, I mean, it was the middle of winter. Um, it was playing the same 200 songs overnight. It was a classic rock station, which um funny because uh it ended up being owned by Cumulus, who I work for now, but um W R K R The Rocker. And it was like, you know, it was all like I I ended up being assistant music director, and I saw I had to program the songs, and I remember trying to put in you know, songs other than there's a certain category that wouldn't let you play anything but like Cold as Ice or Carry On Wayward Sun. Right. I'm trying to put in, you know, like a deep, a deep cut from an album I liked as a kid, it would not let me do that. And um, I remember being invited to parties there, people had deers hanging in their garage, they were proud to show me, and you know, it was just a different thing, you know. And Ted Nugent was was God, and I'm just like, okay. Um, definitely these days I would not uh be in the right place.

George: 11:52

All I know about Kalamazoo is that I I grew up in Berkeley, Michigan, right outside of Detroit. Okay. So I knew all I knew about Kalamazoo is that it was like the tornado capital of the Midwest. Yeah, I didn't know that. And I think maybe Gibson guitars were made there at one point as well. Yeah, I could be wrong about that. But um, that's just so that's really funny. It's a much more complete picture of your career uh than I remember. I just thought, oh, he just came straight from Boston or whatever. I kind of just knew bits and pieces. I know I had my own my own um image of you and kind of idolized your position as as the imaging guy when I was in college and you know, remote teching for uh I I I I can't remember when our first gig together was, maybe in 2001, maybe.

SPEAKER_02: 12:39

I got here the very um I started at Susquehanna on December 11th, 2000. So it really was like in 2001, and I didn't get I wasn't on the air. Oh, I think I did weekends and fill-ins or whatever, but I was the imaging guy. I got hired to be a full-time imaging guy. And so um, and I used this guy's voice, um I forget his name now. Um, but he ended up being the I think a s a CN uh not CNN, um uh TN what's Ted Turner's no I'm drawing a blank TNT TNT. Yeah, he ended being like the TNT imaging guy voice, but he was merge, he was the merge guy. So I'd use his voice for imaging.

George: 13:19

I was kind of wondering about that listening back to the uh the old merge imaging and I knew it wasn't you, but I didn't Do you have that stuff?

SPEAKER_02: 13:27

I don't even have that. Oh my god, I want to hear some of that stuff. I've I've yeah, I've I I actually had a lot of my work out in a shed at my house that I owned, at a little house in um Kessler Park and Oak Cliff. You want me to start over? No, no, you're doing an intro at some point.

George: 13:42

Well, yeah, I mean the great thing about digital media is that we can We can can just mess it around.

SPEAKER_02: 13:48

Yeah, so I started but the very end uh and I remember I remember working not even two weeks. That's weird, December 11th. So um because I went home for Christmas that year and then um then flew back. Um that's weird, yeah. So I think I really kind of started the very beginning of 2001. But I went from um Kalamazoo, I was like, I I was like, you know, I uh what am I doing? I can't do this anymore. I actually lived in Portage, which is the next town over. Um and this and I had an apartment that was like on a golf course. It was kind of weird. And the station was the legal the legal station I remember was was uh K W R K R Kalamazoo Portage Battle Creek. So Battle Creek was even though Battle Creek was kind of a separate market, but that's you know famous for Kellogg's, that's where Kellogg's cereal is, made in Battle Creek. All right. So um, but that was kind of um that was kind of always that that was almost further than like I think then from like Dallas to Fort Worth. So um it was kind of odd. It wasn't quite a a Metroplex, but um for some reason they were in our legal ID and six months of that I couldn't take it anymore. And so um, and um had you know, made some friends there, you know, and went out partying and and um but I just I was going nowhere. So I I quit and then I had to find myself. So I went to Los Angeles for about five years and you know, got away, got about as far away from home as I could. I didn't do anything radio wise there. I mean, I did but did a bunch of like extra work, otherwise I just kind of b bartended.

George: 15:22

Chasing the dream chasing the dream.

SPEAKER_02: 15:24

I thought I wanted to be an actor, but I never took it it seriously, and I had some opportunities that I ended up um another part of my story, but I'm I'm in, you know, I'm in recovery and this that way back then I was not, and so I chose the partying life way over you know my my career. And so what happened was I was, you know, um in the end it was just oh, it was a big blur. And uh my mom passed away out of the blue, and so that was January of '96. And that got me to be go back and be with my dad. Um, you know, I felt I should be with my family, and my life was going, I was bartending out there still and and and uh just going nowhere. And so I went back to the Martha's Vineyard, the vineyard, and um got on the station there. I did like nights at WMBY or whatever, and you know, it's with my dad and everything during that time. And um, and so I think summer came and I made it through the summer there, but I mean that's where I spent all my summers growing up, and it I just felt like I can't go through the winter again here. And I started um becoming aware of a station in oh actually I moved sorry, I moved off the island in in the fall of that year, I remember. And uh, and I I lived outside of Boston. I became aware of a station called the River, which is WXRV, which is still there, it does very well today. It's a triple A station. And so that's where I ended up. Uh I remember walking in there, giving uh the woman and program director Joanne, who I'm still very good friends with, I gave her my I was so nervous. And I remember going in there with my cassette and giving it to her, you know, and she was like, and I told the story about my mom dying. And um remember being nervous, but the fact that I, you know, I shared all this, I was probably babbling about myself to her and stuff like that. But the station was was everything to me. I loved, I loved the station. It was, you know, this was the mid-90s, and it was kind of it was adult alternative, but it was, you know, all that stuff that was coming out, um, you know, mid mid-90s music I like a lot. So a lot, all that kind of cool stuff that was coming out then, you know, they were playing, and um it was a station just north of Boston. So I remember I think it was beginning in '97. I did my first overnight there, and then before you know it, I was on nights, and then I made my way to mornings. I was a morning guy, and I started, you know, digital imaging. We, you know, we just you just talked about kind of referred to like digital, however you just described it, what we're recording this on right now, uh-huh kind of came into play. And so like when I started at you know, at the river, we were still doing real-to-reel tapes and stuff.

SPEAKER_03: 18:02

Pulling out your razor blade.

SPEAKER_02: 18:03

Yeah, yeah. Concert spots, having to splice and stuff. And I guess so I hated it. I really didn't like doing production at all. Um I should add, when I was at that job in Aspen, I got I won like a cup of one or two like awards. I don't I don't have myself, the station has them somewhere, but they like Colorado Broadcaster Award, like small market station. But I did these two the Rocky Mount Tony, uh yeah, something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And um the Silver Sow Award. That was on uh WKRP. Less Les Nest won the Silver Sow Award. Um, but uh for for doing these these spots, there were like these con one was a concert spot, one was a movie parody, and I did them all like I didn't do any splicing. I did them all. I think my friend Chase helped me like push buttons, like A-tracks. We had like three A-tracks going, you know, and and um Oh my god, I don't know how I did them, but it was like you know, the lengths we all went to, right?

George: 18:58

Before it was so easy, like putting two VCRs and a tape deck together to to edit video back in you know 1990.

SPEAKER_02: 19:05

Yeah, it's it's it's incredible. And so uh so I came, so I I started doing we uh I remember them saying, All right, Keith, you need to learn how to do things on the computer. And I was like, Oh, I didn't have email and I didn't have a cell phone, any of that stuff. And and most people, I don't think, still did. I mean, you know, cell phones as far as I know kind of started this century, and and I don't think I had my first cell phone to like 2003, you know. Wow. Um yeah, so and I remember I got it because it does seem late, doesn't it? Um but I don't know. Um it just seems I felt like I was I don't know if I was I guess I was behind the curve. I don't know. I remember Scott Strong, who's our program director at the boss man. The boss man Scott. He was at merge and then he took on the bone. He started the bone with us and he um he wanted me to have a cell phone for so he could reach me to do to do imaging, you know. Imaging we had an imaging emergency, I remember It was like after like we I think it's when they they found Saddam Hussein, excuse me. And they that like I had to do imaging for stuff like that for the cowboys or we got them because it was the bone, you know what I mean?

George: 20:10

So we're gonna smoke them out of their caves.

SPEAKER_02: 20:12

We did imaging for the killing of Saddam Hussein. We got him. We got the bastard. So um, but I I started playing with but back back to Boston a little bit. That was probably like 99, I guess. And so I I wasn't that good with it, but I learned it enough to do to kind of go, oh, this is kind of cool. I can do, you know, I can do I can do stuff with this. So I'd go home at night and load up um this cool letter cool at a pro. It was Saw. You know what Saw? Software audio workstation, I think it stood for it. It was Saw 2. And I stole and I would steal like from all these demos, like the little you know, sound effects from all the demos and stuff. And uh the drops. God, I wish I had some of that. Like this is stuff, this kills me that some of that stuff. Um, but it was uh it was all like just I'd rip off and and and but I somehow I learned how to do it on my own and I loved it. And um, and I imaged my own show and then other people, and it was all it was usually kind of lighthearted, kind of tongue-in-cheek stuff, kind of making fun of making fun of the jock, but maybe kind of, you know, just not taking it too seriously, you know. And so um, and so and the the the they all loved it, and I was it was the morning guy, so I can even remember um, you know, I'd I'd watch TV at night, sit there and flick the channels, be smoking the weed, flick the channels and just put it on VCR, you know, and so I'd have all these bizarre sound bites, and of course I remember using like Regis and you know, Millionaire was big back then. I had a I had a uh a listener who was on who was on Who Wants to be a Millionaire, but it was back when you had to make it out of a circle to get onto the the game, and um I was his phona friend if if he made it to the circle, but I was not his pop culture photo friend. So I was like, all right. But I mean, I'm just trying to think of all the sound bites I use. It was just it was crazy, and I was like a savant, I didn't know what I was doing, but I would just put it all together and it would come out. Had a voice guy for The River, I wasn't the voice guy, and uh, so it always sounded kind of official, but it it caught um I did that stuff, and I was also a music director at the same time. So I'd be like, these people were trying to be I'd be on the on the phone. I remember being up like in the production studio doing like imaging stuff, and then somebody would be like, Hey, can you play this? Play, you know, what the the label guys do, and they're talking to me in one air, and I'm doing that stuff in the other. And um, it was just it was crazy. And I was but I love doing the imaging stuff. I love being on the air too, though. So that's that's kind of my my dilemma. We were talking about that.

George: 22:42

Well, it's funny the way that you described your production process of recording stuff off of TV. That's that's you're describing my childhood and like every gen X kid who had a tape recorder. You just walked around recording things, so it's funny to hear um that you know you're you're you say you're a savant, but it's funny to hear that you just pulled your workflow from when you were a kid into uh it and made it sound so not it you made it sound so still the steely gleam of the voice guy. Um it's funny how that works. I f I just on a tangent, I found the exact same thing when I went to work for Yahoo. And that from the street and from the reputation, you'd think, oh man, it's this super high-tech thing. It must be magical how they do it. And then you go behind the scenes and it's like literally duct tape and like res well at the time, this was in 2006, you know, yeah. Not long after Mark Cuban had put it together with duct tape and Radio Shack components. So it's funny to hear you say that. Like I I don't know what else I imagined. I imagined something a lot more serious and like a lot more like structured. Like he went to he's trained, he's a trained voice actor, ladies and no, no.

SPEAKER_02: 23:57

I was I felt so um unqualified for the job. So what happened was they I had all this stuff and um just you know, beg beg, borrow, and steal everything. And but I love doing that stuff. And I went to a triple A convention in Boulder, Colorado, which they have every year. I don't know if they still have it, but it was the the Triple A summit, something like that. And they had a they had a uh uh I forget which not a workshop, but they had a thing, seminar, whatever on on station imaging. So they played my stuff in this auditorium full of people, um, along with like WXRT in Chicago, KBCO, all the big AAA stations, and then little old Keith has his stuff playing, and like and the people were laughing at some of it, which was the intention. I mean, it was it was it was kind of funny, some of it, you know. And um I would take like the it was like a Jordan jeans commercial from the 70s. What's that? We're beeping. Um be like, you got the look, you got the look. And I and I just as an example, uh, you know, you got the look, and it would be then I'd have the guy going, Joanne Duty, who was our who was our you know, my program director. That was her name, Joanne Duty. I always wanted to use the duty, you know, from Caddyshack, but I'd be making fun of her name. But she's good, I good Irish gal. Her name is Joanne Duty. And so I would put in, I'd take things like that and then put her name in there. And it's just like it's not like it's brain surgery, but it was but it's it was funny if you listen to it, you know, and it like just kind of put some humor and stuff. And um, and but sure enough, so they played my stuff in there, and Scott, boss man Scott, comes up to me. I can just I can still see him with his backpack, you know, and he's he's walking around the place and he's did he have the buddy Holly glasses already? Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. And so he came, he came up to me and he's like, he's like, hey man, loved your loved your imaging. You want to come work in how would you like to come and work in Dallas for me? And I was like, and I think I'm sure I've been had had a few drinks of me, and I'm like, oh my God. Um this was actually I said we had just watched, it would just been at a Joe Jackson uh performance at the Fox Theater. And I remember coming up, him coming to me outside, and he like starts talking like before I can say anything, he's like taught throwing money at me and all this stuff. I'm gonna I'm like, I think it's a joke. And then, but the thing is, two other people like mentioned to me, said, Hey, we'd like to talk to you about it was KBCO in Boulder, um, which is uh in famous station, but um their thing was more I think their job included a lot of doing their live recordings. They have a studio C or something like that, they're very well known for. So I think it sounded like their job was a little more technical, but they wanted me to do both. And I'm not, I don't feel like I'm a very technical, technically inclined guy. Um, you know, I have the the ears for it. And then there's a station called The End in Seattle that for some reason they they were they wanted to uh talk to me, but I ended up going with with merge, the merge. Uh and the rest is history. I I did. I I remember I remember thinking, and then I looked at the cost of living in Dallas because I was in Boston, obviously I was a morning guy, and um, you know, I worked for an independent, small it was a small independent station, and it it it didn't pay me a whole lot to work there. I loved it. I got to meet all you know, meet all these people and you know, do all these interviews, um, you know, go backstage to concerts and whatever. I got to it so it was great. I got to see every concert I wanted, it seemed like, but it just still I started to think, okay, where am I going with this? And so that's when I went to Dallas, and I, you know, dropped the bomb to them and said, Hey, I'm going to Dallas. And it was it was scary though, and I I really feel like I was not qualified for the job at all. And um Yeah, here we are.

George: 27:35

Like 20 something years later, you're still I mean, the company's changed hands a couple times.

SPEAKER_02: 27:41

You're it's I got out for a while, yeah. I I did get out of I did get out of radio really for about five five years in there, and I still did some acting stuff. I mean, I'm with you know, Camel, I did acting and even like some print modeling stuff, and um, I'd like to kind of do more of that now. The acting thing isn't really I don't like memorizing things. Um, I'm good with teleprompters, but I don't like memorizing yeah, I'm not a serious actor. Um but uh yeah, it was about five years out of radio, and then I saw Position Accumulus. Um we were talking, we both worked at Salem, um, which uh it was a little it was that was kind of a slow job too. It was talking about slow jobs, but I remember sitting there and and uh but the people were really nice. The PD of of of K Sky and the word was really nice guy.

George: 28:29

And uh is that uh David Darling?

SPEAKER_02: 28:31

David Darling, yeah. But he was he was the nicest guy. And and I like this, the salespeople and um Jordan, uh Pete Pete. I'm forgetting his oh god, he's gonna kill me. The sales director there was a great guy. Um I know exactly who you're talking about. Pete, yeah. I'm killing me. Um he's gonna hope he isn't listening. Yeah, I forget. Yeah, he was uh he did a show, he did a show at Cumulus too in one of our stations. Um I forget anyways, I can see his face, but so yeah. Um but merge, but you but you th I came to merge. I mean, I felt like a total fraud. And um my god, I I came in, Jeff, uh Jeff K, who's still in the air here, was always this big like fan of mine. He was like, You're so irreverent. You remember calling me irreverent on the air, and you know.

George: 29:19

Well, I mean, that's something.

SPEAKER_02: 29:21

I don't have a normal style, I just can't be like a phony, like, I'll make a reference to like we'll come out of a song in the break. The first thing I'll say is like just like kind of stream a conscience where it's like especially if the usually like not all the time, but like as an example, sometimes I and I've never heard anybody else do this, and I don't recommend that you do this as a DJ, but like I'll if a song if there's a core of a chorus of a song going out, and you know, the guy's like, My head hurts, my head hurts, and I'll be like, I guess his head hurts, and like something like that. And it's not like it's that funny, it's obvious to me. That's so obvious, you know. Right, right. Instead of going, hey, hits 95, you know, it's like, no, that's not that's not natural. So I mean there's a natural flow to it. I I did a break on I did a break like that on um KSCS, which is one of our stations that I'm doing voice tracking on now. And so um, you know, it was it was a real quick it's not even a bit, I don't know what you call that, but it's just a reaction to a song we're playing instead of coming on, then it's like, hey, new country, you know. Uh and and actually the the PD there is is a great guy too. It uh he runs both the country stations. And his whole thing was um I had sent him an air check of uh for KS and and and he he didn't really get back to me. It was cut but it was kind of more on me to get after to kind of go to him. But it was like he was like saying, Well, you sound like you know, it sounded like you were doing production, and so yeah, it did. Probably like I mean I need to get back to like I I don't want to say production has ruined me, but it's kind of like it's you know, I miss it's just not the same thing. And I never um definitely before digital editing, I never would have wanted to be a production guy. I I used to be like, why do you guys want to do this? You know, I'd see them sitting there like cutting tape and swearing, and you know, concert spots were a nightmare. Oh my god, it was terrible. Yeah.

George: 31:17

So well, it seems to me, and and with a lot of hindsight available to me now, and maybe you you can relate to this, like you know, the thought of being air talent to me scared the shit out of me when I first got into radio, and that's why I got into engineering instead. I had absolute I I knew that I had the talent just because my instructors at UNT would say that, like pulley aside after class and say, Son, you better do something with that gift. Like, what are you talking about? Like they're they're like, you should do something with your voice, like radio, whatever it is, do it.

SPEAKER_02: 31:52

And I'd be like, uh Yeah, you just just do it because there's no and that's that's stuff you can't learn. I mean, you know, granted I was a little kid, you know, with a tape recorder, being a DJ, and um it's so it's so dorky, but it's I've never uh I've never thought like anybody I know who's ever I mean like you know, like Howard Stern or you say even something that they they didn't really I mean he was a communications major at BU, but I mean you don't learn how to be on the radio. That's something that you just do. You just get on there and you do it and you listen to people. And I'm sure I've been influenced by I am you know influenced by Howard. I remember in the beginning, him and when I first when I first started that job in Aspen, that like Good Morning Vietnam was like a a new movie, you know. It was big and I remember like just thinking the Robin Williams performance, just like it's like that's what I want. You know, I'd use drops from him too. Huge inspiration for me too, that movie. I mean Adrian Cronau. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's that's the guy, you know. I I don't I never want to imitate anybody, but I at the same time, I don't I I you know, they're there are influences, you know, and so that's how you become comfortable on the radio. And um yeah. And so I want I really have not been an on-air guy for a while. I want to get really want to get back to it. I got I got real depressed there for a while thinking, wow, maybe I can't get back on the air, you know. I know.

George: 33:16

Well, what I was kind of getting to was that going to to work as a production person or in a more corporate setting like I've been working in, you know, I feel like as opposed to being on the air and and um having your job security be based on something like ratings. Yeah, um that is scary. That's what scared me the most. And I feel like it's important now to get a little bit of um insight and some and some hindsight, and that the reason I've stayed and been successful in a corporate job is because it's cushy and it's secure. It doesn't relate to any ratings, and I and maybe you feel the same way as a production guy. Yeah, and it's comfort, or yeah. But at the same time, it's still an art form, I feel like. And you've got to, since we are these radio nerds, radio savant, whatever, this is uh what we were made to do. And so I feel uh lucky that we can do something like this, that there's so many mediums now for anybody that does this kind of stuff or wants to tell stories. Before you had to be be somebody and know somebody to get yourself on TV or on the radio, but now you can do if you're talented and can tell a great story, you can you can uh spread your message to the whole world in a in a millisecond if you if you've got the right platform and know what you're doing. So I I feel like you have to still fill your soul with doing live stuff, and we were talking about that earlier. Like, you know, it's important not to get stuck in that or in the in or in just the nine to five. You're you're still voice acting and you're still using your voice every day. And I feel like the last decade at Thompson Reuters for me, I'm lucky as hell that I get to to play around on the microphone for for for money every day. I mean But it does get boring and you do kind of die a little bit inside. You're like, you know, you you want to be live, you wanna, you know, connect with an audience, and I think that's kind of what you were missing a little bit. So talk about talk about what it is to connect with an audience and like what turned you on about radio and why you wanted to keep doing it. I mean, you you've been in the business for three uh three decades now, right? 90s, 2000s, 2010s.

SPEAKER_02: 35:29

Yeah, my thing, I mean, I've always been uh pretty much like in music radio where the music is more the star than me. I haven't really been a talk radio guy, but it's always like um the river, the station in Boston, just to me had such a cool format. And so people it would the it was known for turning people on to new music. So um I was basically, you know, you're somebody's friend who uh I would I mean it's yeah, I would think the music was say the star, but I mean it was a lot more music than me talking. But when I I talked, like I don't know, I loved I loved playing music on the air, and that's how I got into the imaging stuff because I love I love running the board. I mean, I love you know when I left Boston, we were still playing CDs, so I loved queuing them up. I loved playing my sweepers, bam, hit the button. I mean, just it's just nothing like a tight, awesome sounding board. And so I came to so I came to Dallas and I remember I was intimidated by the studio there for the merge studio because it looked like an airplane, you know, looked like a cockpit, airplane cockpit. It's got the big U shape, you know. Right.

George: 36:32

And we're talking uh on there on the 13th floor on Maple.

SPEAKER_02: 36:36

Uh-huh. All right. Looking, yep, looking right out. And uh, and I remember you know being a little intimidated. I learned the board, so it was it wasn't a big deal, but I remember one of the things I hated that everything was automated. Our commercials were automated at um the river. They ended up being my last year or so there. Um, but even even like for a while, we played commercials off carts and I played my imaging off carts. I don't, I don't, I'm not too proud to admit, you know, admit this. It was like, you know, but like carts are A-tracks, you know, let's just face it, call them what they are. And uh, you know, A-track tapes, and but I love that. I remember picking the taking the carts out every hour for the commercial breaks, and we, you know, the color coded, the black ones were last. It's just funny. And uh, and but I mean we that did change um near the end of my time at the river, but I was still playing CD. So I came here and and I ended up part-time on merge. They want me on weekends, and then I did afternoons, I think. Um it was right after it was right after 9-11 because I know I wasn't on the air in 9-11, but I think I came on a few weeks after that. And and it's like October, November, or December of that year, and then we switched, um, we switched to the bone in February of 2002, I think. Right? Yeah, 2002. So um, so I wasn't really only afternoon guy for about four months, but I remember just everything was automated, and I would be like, oh, I just sat there and like well that was when our orbits first crossed. Yeah, yeah.

George: 38:02

In that weird transition time, yeah. Carter was out merging from merging in the weekend, then you took over. So it was you and me out on like at Gator's on a Friday afternoon, merging in the weekend.

SPEAKER_02: 38:15

And those ticket guys, I remember I was kind of like I was oddly um, you know, I I see him now. I mean, it was it was uh the hard line were the other guys, and I remember being um I don't want to say say intimidated, but I felt like like I just I felt so out of place, I think. And uh I don't know, I still felt very new here and everything, and I'd say, hey, how you doing? But I think uh I remember coming into my I had a I had the production room on 13th floor. There were there was a few production studios. It well, there's two imaging guys. I was right next to um to John, um, you know, ticket imaging guy, and uh and OD, whatever they call him, and I was him and I in that area. And then uh the commercial production was was across that hallway. But I remember like like coming into my studio and Mike Reiner was on my was in my studio on the phone, and I didn't know where he was. And I just remember like giving him this really like dirty look. And so I thought he hate because he was on my phone. I'm like, Jesus, who is this guy?

George: 39:12

You know, and like, well, why don't you just hop along?

SPEAKER_02: 39:15

And uh and so I remember um I remember just yeah, so I never I I I don't know, I thought, oh, this guy hates me or whatever. And it it turned out, I mean, he was he was the nicest, he was the nicest guy in the world. He's such a pro. And um all those guys, huh?

SPEAKER_03: 39:29

Yeah, I you know what?

SPEAKER_02: 39:30

I feel like I wasn't from here either, so I didn't know that he had been around for you know, I didn't know he was a rock guy from the the eight, you know, the ages, and I didn't know anything about him.

George: 39:39

So well, if you only knew their air persona, yeah and you know, you would think that he hates you and that you sh you cannot speak to him. And I I was a listener before I went to work for the ticket and the other stations. And so I found him to be just like you did. Like he was a total pro. He always remembered my name, he was super nice. And like never cuss me out on location. Grego was a little bit tougher cookie. Um he wasn't friendly at all.

SPEAKER_00: 40:08

No, he wasn't.

SPEAKER_02: 40:08

Yeah.

George: 40:09

You know, he was the kind of guy, sadly, that I, you know, we would pass by each other in the airport, like on a I was doing the Dallas Desperados at the same time he was doing the the engineering. And he we'd pass each other in the airport. I'm like, we're co-workers, you're not even gonna say hi. Like yeah, he was like that.

SPEAKER_02: 40:25

He was like that too. I that's I remember him.

George: 40:27

Um I mean he was awesome on the the air, but like co just for as a coworker goes, he he just never talked.

SPEAKER_02: 40:35

He just sat there like he was in agony or something, and I'm yeah, and socially I I I don't like um I'm not a small talker kind of guy. I have a hard time saying hi, you know, whatever. So and I'm I think because I have that I have kind of a northeast way about coldness about me. I've noticed that about myself. I don't mean to, it's just kind of the way I am. I can't be phony or fake or whatever. So somebody isn't paying any attention to me. It's like yeah, but those guys, um I remember um, yeah, I just remember being on location with you, that was it. We were merging to the weekend every every Friday. And uh I remember I remember being like doing, I think the first one was like Texas OU weekend or one of the first ones, and we were at uh it was at I I'm sure you were there with me. Um it was at the like Dick's Last Resort down in West Village. Yeah. And I remember that only because I remember saying, What's like what's the big deal with this weekend? Everyone's like, oh my god, it's Texas, and from from Boston, I have no idea. I mean, it's like I'm not and I'm not a huge sports guy, I'll admit that. So I mean you throw that into the fact that I'm just not from here. That you know, it was like, what's the big deal? And so of course it was packed and crazy, and you know, I realize it's one of the biggest weekends here in Dallas every year now, but it's like I I was just still learning about the area, you know. And uh I remember going out, but the yeah, the ticket guys, they were they would be at the other side of the bar, and half the time I'd they wouldn't talk to me and say, Hey, what's up, whatever, you know.

George: 41:59

You know, that's so weird. I thought I almost forget about that. There was a time where we merged into the weekend and the ticket was there at the same time at the same remote.

SPEAKER_02: 42:07

Yeah. A lot of the times, a lot of the times they were, more often than not. I think they were. Yeah. Because I remember being like at Stan's Blue Note, and I'm trying to think of all the places we did, but I had probably had about three months of that. You know, and that was in merge was where I first did a voice tracking thing um on where I did the the New Year's Eve countdown or whatever it was, the song, the the best songs of 2001. You know what the number one song was?

SPEAKER_03: 42:31

I'm sure we can find out in like five seconds.

SPEAKER_02: 42:33

I know what it was. Was it by Creed? It was not Creed. Creed was never Creed was two. My sack of rice was number two. Remember, and then uh uh it was Life House Hanging by a Moment was the number one thing. Oh my god. Yeah, that tells you about two. It's funny that I remember that. But I had to record that. I remember being being I went to Houston. Um my my my and now X and I had met these people on a these guys on a cruise, and they invited us to Houston, their house in Houston for New Year's Eve. So we went there, and I remember like voice tracking and kind of worrying about if it would be okay, you know. And I think it was you could listen, I guess you could listen online because that was the big thing about merge, right? Was merging the internet now. Every meanwhile, every you know, Claire Channel station did that, you know, the same time. So it didn't matter, yeah.

George: 43:22

But well, it was super ahead of its time. I mean, I I I know as a as a nerd of that time who was into Napster and online before anybody else, it was Napster. It was ahead it was totally ahead of its time. It it would have been it seems like it would have fit better in the 2000s, like later in the 2000s, but I mean it was a fun idea. It didn't really it didn't go anywhere, like but it the people that worked there were all super talented. Like I'm I'm just trying to think back like things I remember about merge while we're on the subject. Um you know, Tim and Eva and um Jeff K and Chip Adams and um you know Carter, and you know, later you you you were I mean I I don't know if I missed anybody in there.

SPEAKER_02: 44:05

Uh those that was the main lineup, yeah, because it was because Jeff, yeah, Jeff was on middays, uh Tim and Yvonne, and then I think I want to say Yvonne ended up by herself. Uh Yvonne was in the bone for a bit. I see I can remember the bone pretty well too. Um let's talk about night merge.

George: 44:24

Since we were talking about starting off doing remotes together, and uh I was I our we have a mutual friend in John Englman who used to work as part of our crew as you and me and John England on the board. Yep. He just had like a major like transplant surgery. He's like laid up on a hospital bed at this moment. But I I was just thinking back to uh those those times and those those days leading up to the format switch, which you knew all about. I couldn't tell anybody in the beginning. Nobody else knew shit except we had to try to put two and two together as we did our last couple of merge into the weekends, and you weren't there with us, and we were giving away the entire uh music library of merge on CD at the time, like as promo gifts.

SPEAKER_02: 45:11

Yeah, yeah.

George: 45:12

I was like, oh, that's what that's why we were. For like that maybe the very last merge into the weekend, you weren't you weren't on location. For some I want to say John Englman was on location with us for some reason, and you weren't there.

SPEAKER_02: 45:28

I had to go I had to lock the door to that studio, and Dan and Scott were very, we're very and and one of the and I'll I'll say this in public, but one of the you know, Jeff and I were we're we're we're friends, and um I remember he he had of course he had star season tickets before he was there, the announcer there, but he would take me stars games and I remember he did the the club that thing in deep lum, whatever that club one was it club one or whatever the thing I forget what it was called, but uh but we we hung out to go see him, go see him at the remote, and then we were friends and everything, and and that kind of hurt our relationship. He was, I don't know that he ever say it seemed like he didn't forgive me at least the rest of our time there that I could I never told him. I couldn't tell anybody. I was sworn to secrecy, though I couldn't tell any salesperson, definitely not salespeople, and I couldn't tell anybody else on the air because they were just worried that's that it would slip or you know, and and sure enough, I'll tell you what, it was a good strategy because the bone came on the air and it was like insane um how popular that station was with the the crappiest signal like known to mankind. It still is too. I mean, that hurts us so bad. I remember driving in, I was with my ex and we're driving in down 30, and we're probably like at maybe in Greenville, um, you know, not that far away. And I'm like maybe an hour outside Dallas, and I couldn't get the station. I'm going, what's what's what's going on here? You know, and so um, you know, it's a good thing it was on the internet as well, but it's the you know, it's always been hampered, and and I remembered I remember remember doing sweepers for the bone at one time. We were gonna trade out with like 105.7 and so I remember I remember having our voice guy cut these other ones. We almost became I want to say it was 105.7, which was a little better, I guess, than than uh 93.3. Yeah, but that was but it was amazing what the bone did um coming on there. We got all these bonuses and um it was so exciting. I remember that, you know, we're we're gonna have Bo Roberts and you know all this stuff.

George: 47:29

I well, I remember there was a lot of excitement and it felt like I at first I felt it felt totally out of character for like as for my co-workers as I had known them and as like advocates of the kind of music merge played, but like between Jeff and the others, I thought I couldn't figure it out at first. I'm like, how could they go from like like introducing the world to the Chemical Brothers on their radio show to I'm playing Van Halen 40-year-old Van Halen songs all of a sudden? But then I realized it was a perfect fit because yourself and Jeff are, you know, Gen X, baby boomer, crossover. You're kind of right in the between, I would guess. And so that's that's the music of your childhood.

SPEAKER_02: 48:14

And it's okay that like like Jeff makes no like now Jeff is on is on Lone Star, and it's like he's he's playing the Eagles and you know, this the same kind of bone stuff every day, and maybe a little bit lighter than the bone was, but he's still playing that stuff. And and I follow him on Instagram, and he's he's totally proud of, and I'm sure plenty of people who listen to him on that station see him with his cure haircut and you know him hanging out with Depeche mode. And I mean, yeah, he's he's uh to me, it makes him look um a little more, I guess, well-rounded. You know what I mean? Because I I loved I loved alternative rock. I love class, I mean, I do like classic rock. I was listening to um, oh my god, what was the the band? Um I'm doing a little I'm doing a little show right now on KNON's internet station. Um they just like launched this thing, and I'm I don't know if I'm 10 people listen to me. I have no idea, but they all my friends are, so that's about maybe you know, 10 people. And uh and uh I don't know, I'm trying to think of how many invitations I sent up, but um, but I love this is what I was talking about being live and stuff, and I could I could record it and produce it, but I I'm sitting there and I'm literally playing songs between um I have to get I'll talk to you about getting some software to maybe to make playlists. I can do it on my laptop a little better, but I'm going between my phone and my laptop playing songs. And I did all these like really, really funny, you know, funny sweepers with rosette.

George: 49:32

You just lost your your street cred. If you're not showing up to your gig with like crates of records, right? You're you're not you're not really no.

SPEAKER_02: 49:40

I mean, I missed that. I actually I didn't okay. So I came into radio where where turntables were kind of on the way out, to be honest. And I I did not like it, it's it's it's too hard. It's like segues with turntables. I don't know how they did it back in the day. Um I don't know. It's I mean, I I guess I just wasn't that great at it. I so so when I start out in radio, the CDs were kind of taking over. And uh and so that's oh, I'm a CD DJ, and I loved because I could get you can get it exactly where you want. The remote start on the board hit it, whatnot. So I but I pulled off um um what was I getting? I was getting to something. Oh my gosh. Oh, I know what it was. I've been listening to so I've I've called this show various rock formations, that's the name of it. And I want to get it like well known enough so it's like you know, TRL was I can call it VRF, you know, right and uh and but it's like playing different, you know, I go from like Buddy Holly to you know like alternative stuff and to reggae and the blues and you know, whatever that that kind of idea. You know, just being a little bit eclectic and um listening to um you know, I play some of that stuff. I think I was gonna I was debating playing it like an Aussie song, like a deeper song that I liked by him, and then this band called Shooting Star, which was big when I was in 10th grade. And I was listening to them today at the gym going, that's it. He they actually have a good they have a couple good songs. And uh, you know, they sound like Kansas, the poor man's Kansas, but they they rocked, you know, and they got the drum solos and the frantic violin and the good guitar solos. I mean, I love I like classic, I like some classic rock, you know.

George: 51:12

Well, I feel like there's still a there's still something to be said for the art form of of DJing and you know the the kind of artistic talent that it takes to do that. I feel like there's still something to be said for that in a world where every human being on earth is suddenly a photojournalist and any everyone anyone with a microphone can make a podcast. Like I I feel like talent still rises to the top and there's still a place for professionals uh in this world, even though anybody could do it, that doesn't mean that anybody should do it.

SPEAKER_02: 51:46

Yeah, should I just say it because I'm a I'm a voice voiceover guy too, and you know, primarily it's people say, What do you do for a living? And I say, Well, I I say I make I say I make commercials, but then I then I say voiceover. I mean my my email has VO and the the title, so um I guess I consider myself a a voiceover guy. I mean, like I've said I've done some acting, I mean I've done stuff on camera and like I'm in, you know, brochures and whatever. But I wouldn't call myself a model. I kind of laugh when I say that. But like um I call myself a voiceover.

George: 52:19

I'm the Gen X voiceover guy on LinkedIn, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 52:21

Yeah, I'm a voiceover guy. And so it's it's um I just I just um I don't like getting into these places where you're you're auditioning with this these huge stables of people. Um I just don't have time to be doing that. But even like the voices.com and um Yeah, that's tough. It's usually whether you're the first one of the first few people to get your audition audition in there. And if you're not, it's like yeah, you know.

George: 52:46

Well, the last time I went freelance and and actually scored a commercial gig, it was like 50 auditions, 50 no's, one yes. So that's nothing has changed about that in any kind of acting. Um it's still a lot of who you know and and timing. So it really pays to have a day job that pays uh still getting to do what you love and use your voice all the time. And that's this is this is what I've had to say to myself. Um just so I can kind of justify what I do. Like it it being in radio or any kind of art form for a living is you you better have some some adventure cooked into you because it's not easy and it you're gonna struggle. And it's I mean, anybody they they the reason they can pay six bucks an hour or seven bucks an hour for to board up is because there's people wrapped around the building that are willing to do it that don't know.

SPEAKER_02: 53:44

I remember being being glad when I got laid off from um you know, I when Cumulus bought Susquehanna, I work for Cumulus now, but they laid a third of us off, I guess, at least. It was it was you know Black Friday, and and um they had I remember, you know, Dan Dan Bennett, God love him, had to go around and fire all these people. And you know, and and it was like um, you know, he was saying laid off and say fire people, but it's really what he had to do. And I remember I was one of the last people that he came around to, and I th I know that he felt terrible about it. He had he had him and Scott had when the I flew down here for I guess my interview um about a few weeks before I came here. I remember that it was a Saturday because I was on the air at home, and they flew me down and they took me out to lunch and showed me around and and um you know, Dan, I still see Dan every day now, but I remember him having to go around and and and um you know drop the hammer on people. And so um I was going somewhere with this. You might have to edit this. What were you just talking about before this? I totally just I had a brain fart, but um I was going somewhere.

George: 54:51

Uh getting laid off from uh well it's really interesting to hear this this backstory because I was gone in 04, so when the the acquisition happened shortly thereafter, I didn't I don't know anything that happened after that.

SPEAKER_02: 55:04

Yeah, it was it was um it was sad because it it uh it was such a it was I I tell you right now, Susquehanna, like the the the way they took care of us was insane. That was such a good company. They took care of it.

George: 55:16

I I thought that too. I felt like compared to everywhere anywhere else I ever worked after that, we got spoiled.

SPEAKER_02: 55:21

Susquehanna was the best in the business. They really care, they really cared about employees. But uh I got I don't know, there's some reason I just brought up Dan.

George: 55:28

I totally forget, but well I had my own Dan experience. He hired me when I when I went from being a promo guy with a ticket to transferring to the engineering staff. Yeah, he shook my hand and said, George, just don't put the antenna up in the power lines and you'll do great here. And it was like with his baritone voice.

SPEAKER_02: 55:47

Yeah. I still seem nice, done an incredible job. You know, we I I will I'll so what I'm mentioning here, my my job as some part of the production team at at Cumulus, we have six radio stations here in Dallas, um, especially the four that we used to have, uh and then plus the Citadel stations, which were WBAP and KSCS. And um, it is kind of weird having the two, you know. When I came here, the big rivalry was the wolf and KSCS. Yeah, now they're in the same stable. It's like and and and I've done some um some filling in. I'm doing voice tracking on KSCS, but they've also talked to me about doing it in the wolf too. I'm thinking, you know, my biggest it's just kind of but and both the stations are tremendously successful, and they have very um The Wolf is a left.

George: 56:32

They're both legends.

SPEAKER_02: 56:33

Yeah, they are. And I love seeing I still see Smokey in the hallway every day. Love God, love Smokey. Um, they've they've been through the the Wolf has been through a few morning shows. Um there's a great guy on on the evenings I don't see anymore. Um Bill, he's gone. But uh uh what was gonna say about KSCS. I mean, they have this great, uh really popular morning show.

George: 56:55

And Hawkeye in the morning?

SPEAKER_02: 56:57

Hawkeye, yep. Hawkeye's on in the morning, and everybody, but so many people talk to me about their like their second date update is like the big thing they have. It's one of the most popular features. And Hawkeye's on with Michelle.

George: 57:07

It's a it's he's awesome. Like that dude has been around.

SPEAKER_02: 57:10

He's he's he is great. He's I I love seeing him every day. And that that's just it. That's it's one of the things about um, you know, with COVID and stuff, we all worked from home. I'm trying to think how long that went on. It was it was basically through October of last year. I went in one one day a week to do a show. This woman came in to a recorder show for the weekend. So that was a good seven months, I guess, that I was working from home. And now now we're back to the option of where you can work from home or not, because this, you know, an Omnicron, whatever it is, um sounds like a Transformers movie every time. Right. Omnicron. Um, but uh I go in because well, I've talked to you before about my my equipment stuff at home, and I'm I'm kind of living um my living situation. I don't have a whole lot of room to spread out anyway. So I I I like to go in. Um and I see like Hawkeye in the in the hallways in the morning. Michelle Rodriguez is uh with him now in the morning. Who is she? She um I do remember her uh from she was like um I think she was like part-time on the wolf when I started back when the wolf was. I can still see that wolf studio on 16 and and you know, just fresh face Jeremy Robinson up there up there in the the nighttime. And we have Tara back who was part of the the morning show back in the world.

George: 58:24

I remember working with her, she was great.

SPEAKER_02: 58:25

She's on the wolf now, too, and uh with Brian, who's a comedian. They're both they're both pretty good. So I mean I work with some really, really talented people, and I'd love to get, I would love to get um, I'd like to be part of that. I think the thing with ratings, um you're talking before about worrying about your job being dependent on ratings, unless you really suck, um, the station's gonna carry you these days. I mean, it is.

SPEAKER_00: 58:50

Come on, man, how can you screw it up?

SPEAKER_02: 58:52

Um, but I you know, I do go down the hall and I hear that you know, we have the stations over the over the loudspeakers. I'll hear my commercials on there and stuff. Um, I'm on a lot of commercials.

George: 59:01

Well, that's I was gonna I was gonna say that to you. It's so funny that I've got you here in front of me now, but like driving around Dallas Fort Worth, if you tune into any one of those stations, I listen to the ticket when I drive around. You're inescapable.

SPEAKER_02: 59:14

Sorry about that. Your voice is I mean, dude. And there there's spots I've done too. It's really weird, the ones that I hear, these these little ones that I figure, oh, that won't, you know, whatever. And uh they they do I guess they keep getting extended or something. These spots that I think and I treat them all the same way. I mean, I'm definitely like the old Navy guy. I had Ty do an old Navy spot the other day, and I'm like, hey, how dare you? And uh it's kind of funny. He's like, Oh, I thought you were busy. But it's like, I mean, I'm I I um, you know, whether it's Dunkin' Donuts, which I'm proud to do being from Boston, and uh, you know, but uh it's it's yeah, it's it's okay, but uh it's uh it's not ideally what I want to. Yeah, I want I want to get back to, you know, what I've I've talked to some of my co workers uh in the department that if if they ever Switch 93.3 to like any form of rock station, how we all want to be on the air, you know? And so yeah. So I I definitely, I definitely um am all for that, but um I don't think that's gonna happen. I think that I think the position is.

George: 1:00:17

It's funny to hear you say that because how much of radio or any bit of show business is waiting around close by in case you just get your chance. Like that was my that was my I my thinking in um you know in getting into engineering. I wanted job security, but I also wanted to work with the best in the business and like sit next to the guy whose job I want. Yeah. So I can learn everything I can.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:39

Well, that's what I did. Yeah. That's what I was, you know, that's kind of what happened with with me being on merge and stuff too, because I had said I wanted to be on the air and then it didn't work out with the you know, the afternoon guy before me. And then I remember um with the river, um, the station in Boston, I I I I went and did sales because I I was kind of in this real oora stage of life, I think. And my my partner at the time was a was a was a salesperson. And so I remember saying, I love the station so much, I'm gonna do sales. And I I don't like radio sales, but I went and I did it. And I would be on weekends on the station, and because I love the station so much. And um, this guy was on at night, and and um sweetest guy in the world, just just the nicest guy in the world, but he was just um he would just he'd fuck up a lot. So I remembered I'd kind of list him at night and and the the basically uh the management of the station be like, just hang in there, we're gonna put you on. We just don't know how to handle this, you know. So I remember kind of waiting for my chance, and it was kind of like they would merge a little bit too. I remember they were saying things to me you know, you want to put you on in the afternoon. So yeah, you gotta put yourself, you gotta put yourself close to you know, to to to where to where you want to be. And I even I was doing um weeknights. I was somehow I was I guess I was going to the the Mar, let's say the vineyard is Martha's Vineyard. Um, I would go to the vineyard and do this do the show during the week um on at WMPY, do like the evenings there, and then I guess stay with my dad and then come then come off island and and be on the river on the weekends. And um and my program director at the river said, you know, I said, Well, I am I how am I the most value to you? And she said, Well, I really need you to be here. Said I would I would work with us on the weekends if you really want to work here, and then give up the stuff on the vineyard during the week. That way you're around once should something happen. Right. That's when I did sales. Um that was a thrilling that that part getting on the river, um, being on there for the first time. I remember that because my my voice was on in Boston. I'm like, oh my god. That was that was the biggest thing. It really was. That was a big deal. And I love the stage, love the music. And um, that was the same weekend. I started there the same week, and that private parts came out. Um, and Howard being a role model of mine, and still one of my favorite movies. Like, I mean, I never thought the movie would be as funny as it was, you know what I mean? So it was it's just so weird. Like my radio career overall, my commercial radio career started with Good Morning Vietnam, and then my Boston career started with you know, the private parts, and just like the inspiration that comes from all that. So that excitement, like I I just uh it's it's hard, it's it's not hard to recapture. It's like even doing that little internet thing, I still feel that weird excitement doing that. You know what I mean? It's weird, even though there could be 10, like I said, it could be 10 people listening, but it's I don't care. It's like that's that just feels like that's what I should be doing. You know, and yes, playing music. And I love I love doing that, I like I like playing music for people.

George: 1:03:35

So there's still something to be said for that for sure. Um I think I see a lot of people doing stuff like that. I'm like, oh well, in 20 years ago you would have been a DJ doing that. Like a lot of I it's funny to see where the internet is now. I feel like you know, a lot of people would write off radio as an industry completely um in twenty would uh write off radio completely as a bit as an industry in 2022, but the way I picture it is that it's the oldest form of electronic media in radio. It's a it's a hundred years old next year. Yeah, I guess. Is it really? So I think there's still a lot to be learned um from that business because uh you know, with the emergence of podcasting and you know, long form storytelling being in vogue, I think a lot of people don't necessarily realize the origin, uh the origins of of what they're doing now. Like a podcast is just a talk radio show, and there's been a hundred years of people doing that kind of thing and reaching audiences and uh over the airwaves or on a device, whatever. I think there's a direct translation. And I feel like although it was a fleeting industry the day I joined radio out of college, yeah. You know, I've had to had to I I I knew that going into it and had to evolve my skills and my career path in order to keep doing it. But I feel like there's still a lot to be learned from radio as a business, and it translates directly to podcasting and and every other form of media that we have now. I think it's like a I don't know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:17

There's so many, there's so many choices, and I'm I'm awful. Like I I think the one thing that people uh have a problem with radio is is what I like when people ask me what I do for a living, like I I kid, I jokingly say, well, I'm the reason you changed the station. And that's because people hear commercials, they're gone. So I mean, a lot of people are. You're listening to the radio for music. I mean, if you listen to the radio for music, if if not, you know, talk radio is a different story. But um I think there has to be a way to, I think radio has to find a way to incorporate advertising um into the broadcasting. And I think podcasting is kind of showing the way there are these guys, um, Pod Save America, they're kind of a more left-leaning um talk show. But I listen to these guys, they were Obamas, whatever. And uh, and but they they do a really good job of um that they I say our you know, our sponsors are they they don't make any beans about there being sponsors, and like Howard used to do this too, but like doing live spots. But make the spots without insulting the clo the client, make them kind of funny. Don't go on forever, but I mean I hear them talking about the thing and they're actually kind of funny, but you'll remember the product and you don't have to sit through, you know, all these commercials. And uh, you know, yeah, I guess I'd be out of a job if we did that. But it's still it's it's you know I don't care to tell them myself. But I mean it's it's radio has to evolve to something beyond what it is. At least m at least radio that uh plays music, I guess. And and talk radio too. Talk radio just needs to incorporate and they do live spots too, you know what I mean? But there has to be there's got to be some kind of evolution because the numbers are I mean, they are going down. Um our country stations are still doing pretty good. The ticket ticket does well, um, you know, and they're and because they're such a unique um sports radio does really well for some reason. Boston, the top, RKO, I think, is is often near the top. That was the one that my little top 40 station as a kid, but I mean now it's I mean, I guess the bigger sports town a town is. I mean, Boston obviously is a huge sports town. Dallas is pr is pretty big.

George: 1:07:21

Well, the tickets kind of set the mold for every other station to be to to be successful on the long run. And you know, I've it was fun to be a part of that and to be in that orbit. That's one thing I actually do kind of miss. Like, yeah, I like having I I just work from home. I'm sitting here in my pajamas every day doing my voice thing, but I do actually miss the excitement of going to a radio station and like a c especially a cluster where there's four or five stations and all of the talent and personnel uh involved in all that. I remember working um when I first started and met you and worked at the the ticket and merge and bone, just hanging about just being around on 13 and 16, just to cross paths with the people I want to learn from. And like that was that that's what it was all about, me bugging you in your studio on your lunch break. I was just like gleaning anything I could from you know from hanging out with you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:13

I remember I remember having we had like little shadow days too. Sometimes I'd just show these kids like a class would come through, I'd just show them what I did for a job. I can remember that at the boat, like being the bone guy, the merge, whatever it was, it'd be like kids want to want to do this for a living. Um and uh you just made me think of something else, and I just forgot what it was.

George: 1:08:35

Um, that's what every when I first started at the ticket, Greg Greg Williams said, What's your major? And I was like, Oh, it's radio, TV, and film, obviously. And he's like, Change it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:46

Yeah.

George: 1:08:46

My my suggestion, find a different job for find a different industry.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:50

That was about all he ever had to say, but I was a communications major and I remember, you know, realizing that I didn't need to be, um, but it it made college more fun, I guess. Um, I mean, I walked into that station at you know, the KSP and an ask, but I walked in there and gave them, I guess I had a tape of myself from from college, you know, but I meant it in overnight. And that's how that's how my radio career usually started out doing an overnight, and then I'd and then I, you know, pretty quickly usually worked my way into something more uh more full-time. Uh even like like KSCS, I did voice tracked overnights, and I'm gonna do some more this coming week, which is good. That and that'll yeah, um, that'll be good. I can like this stuff I don't want to put on there, but it's like, don't put this on there, but it's like I can do that while I'm doing nothing, you know, if I in case I'm doing nothing in the studio during work. But it's also working for the same company and getting getting paid a little more. But uh what it what is it you're doing now? Anyways, I don't even know what you're doing.

George: 1:09:51

Well, this is I've been interviewing you. I guess like I could tell you tell you what I've been doing.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:55

Well yeah, edit me out of it. Too much of me on there. All right, all right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:02

Yes, what is it what is it you're doing, huh? Okay.

George: 1:10:34

You know, it's it's funny that you say better pays better.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:41

I will I would uh I would so um help you if there's an opening, I would certainly go in there. We had a we had an opening, but they wanted uh female. Only because we don't have any, she's the only female person we have.

George: 1:11:02

Well I thought something like that would might happen, and I figured that they might want to hire somebody so it's not your voice on every single space ever.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:14

Yeah. I'll listen sometimes. I don't hear me, and I'm like, okay, uh it's usually JJ who I work with, I think, and I are on the most spots. He's got a real upbeat kind of delivery, and then uh Allie's the she's our new, our new female person. She um yeah, because I mean some clients do want females. We have we have an out you can outsource things too, but I'm really fortunate that I don't have to cover um and also don't put this on there. Um that I don't have to cover uh most of the business stuff. They've they've let me kind of be a voice guy. That's my that's my job. So um you know, I mean sometimes I'll have to you know find air checks or things that are kind of easy like that, but as far as the business end of it, um I'm fortunate and I'm I'm very grateful for that. But I want to do the best job I can with you know the voice stuff. Yeah. Um I want to learn, you know, as far as a voiceover career, I want to get you know the one thing I've never really delved into is doing voices or characters or anything like that or accents, you know. I mean, if so that's that's the one area where you can get kind of lazy when you're continuously doing car dealers or you know. Yeah. So um, so I'd like to, yeah. So what to so what is it? So what is it you're doing? You said you're using your voice all the time.

George: 1:12:34

Yeah, well, so 10 years ago, um, just this last summer, I was uh in the middle of a divorce and like just like the worst free fall ever. I had left the radio business, you know, a couple of months before. This is in 2011. I was working at SRN Salem for a second time. Salem. And I just kind of SRN's the yeah. The second time through, I had less to lose. And I I had already been to my, you know, I worked at Yahoo and kind of came back and I after being laid off there in 09. And, you know, I kind of bailed on the radio business, was in free fall, my wife split, you know, we were getting divorced, and I just got the I'd formed an LLC a couple of years earlier and gotten this phone call out of the blue from Thompson Reuters recruiter. And I was like, who? I'm like, I've heard of Reuters, it's an international news agency. Yeah. But Thomson Reuters is the combined company of Thompson, like a newspaper and publishing empire in Canada, um, and Reuters, the news empire. Yeah. Um, and so I'd never never heard of a webinar. I didn't know what Thompson Reuters was, but it's this tax and accounting company, and they are like the uh the CIA, the intelligence office for tax accounting um and uh financial professionals. So they have to take these courses called CPE to renew their licenses, like just like lawyers or doctors or any other profession, you have to, you know, maintain your education. So we provide these courses to them. They have to get you know 100 hours every two years or whatever, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:05

Yeah.

George: 1:14:06

But um, so I'm the voice of checkpoint learning webinar. So we provide it's like online college. We have all of these talented authors and speakers that are you know the gurus in their field of tax preparation or whatever it is, whatever it is they specialize in. And they give these courses, which is like it's basically PowerPoint and talk radio. And so, you know, the stars of the show are the uh the authors, but I'm the voice and the imaging of the product. So if you sign on to the webinar to take the class, you're listening to my voice between before every webinar, giving you your instructions. Yeah, checkpoint learning webinars powered by Thompson Reuters. Press the attendance verification pop-up when it appears on your screen. You know, stuff like that for recording, but I also do the live intros on the webinar. So I introduce the webinar, say welcome to the federal tax update right now to take us through the federal tax updates. John Steve Coe coming to us live from Los Angeles. Good morning, John. You know, just like giving it a time, uh giving it a place. Like it's a virtual experience, but I say here at Thompson Reuters, we're coming to you from the webinar headquarters in Fort Worth, talking to John Steve Co about taxes, you know, just whatever. So, you know, it after doing it for 10 years, I still see I don't have listeners, but I do have an audience. We have about 300,000 attendees a year.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:26

Sure.

George: 1:15:26

That hear hear me doing my thing. And uh people chat into the chat box to me too. They love the the speakers because some of those seminar speakers have been doing it for 30 years. They used to do it in person, you know, before before our virtual world. But um it's fun. And you know, I went into it. I had done a couple of commercials before on Salem, like did it for free because I wanted to do it so bad. And in furthering that cause, like I had done, I had left radio, I'd gone on to work for for Yahoo, learned digital content management, learned how to make digital videos and like how to website operations and streaming is what it was. And so after doing that, I I kind of went back into radio and was done was tired of that pretty quick and just kind of transitioned into I'm like, okay, this isn't radio, it's not television, it's not sexy, it's not the ticket, but I'm the I am the the main voice of the whole brand for you know 300,000 people a year. I'll take it. And so I had to figure out how to do it first. I I had to put it all on a whiteboard and just relate it to what I knew in radio broadcasting. So it was all, you know, I'm like, this is just talk radio with with PowerPoint. And so once I figured that out, it was like, okay, this is a no-brainer. Like I'm this big fish in this little tiny pond. And I'm like, okay, I don't have to compete with anybody. I'm the only one at the company that does this. If I play my cards right and let the right people know about it, anytime this international corporation with you know 300,000 employees, whatever, crazy, wants something done voiced, any any they call me.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:13

So you're the thing for the whole company, a company that big? I was gonna ask if you get me a gig, but I guess not. I was thinking, all right.

George: 1:17:21

So we were just talking about trading jobs. Yeah. And so, you know, it's not all that different. Like the way I look at it for the the 10 minutes I get to use my voice for each webinar or whatever, I'm like, I'll take it. I'll I'll deal with all the other mundane clerk tasks of you know working on e, you know, on at administering email boxes and customer service garbage. It's like, okay, I'll I'll do all of that if you let me on the mic, you know. So it's been a fun evolution to start. We started off doing it on speakerphone. We didn't have microphones at the time. We were doing it on a WebEx with the teleconference, and I was talking to you know, holding the phone up and talking talking into it. And so to to kind of evolve over a decade to finally be on real microphones and like with proper, you know, great sounding audio and you know tools like Zoom and you know, Kaltura and what we're using nowadays, you know, it's just a it's just a slight variation of what I always wanted to do anyway. You know, I would I still apply for jobs at radio stations just to go dip my toes in just to see if I can even get a call back. And sadly, I never do.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:30

Like for it's for for they tend to hire, I think they usually tend to hire from people within, but I was just saying the the the spot we had opened at at Cumulus, I know they wanted a female just because we didn't have one. So kind of understandable. A lot of a lot of times places hire from within, you know. Totally. So I mean, I was just thinking if I get on and do if I get on and and and you know, at least voice track, whatever, but do overnights at, you know, say KSES or whatever, they might want somebody at night. I don't know. Like I might, who knows? How I don't know, but I have to know my country music, I guess. But uh well, no, I don't have to.

George: 1:19:08

I I my fingers are crossed for you, man, because it's still something to get on a microphone and talk to an audience. It there's still something to that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:16

I mean, yeah, no, it's I I enjoy I enjoy what I've done doing that. Um and they want, you know, and they they want real they want real people. They don't want hyped up. Like when I had that job in Kalamazoo, I remember it, I remember like the the program director kind of he I think it was did afternoons or something, and I remember listening to him and he kind of put on that voice. And it's just like I just I just never really want to put on a voice. But um, like my friend Julie was listening to me on the internet thing last week, and she's like, Oh, you sound so good. She goes, No more dorky voice or whatever, because you know, I put there's a there's a voice, there's a voice you put on when you're selling stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:51

So I know that voice so well.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:54

And it's like I try not to, I try not to sound like that, but it's you know, it's you know. It's just the way it is. That's that's how it can ruin you. You know what I mean? So um Yeah. And that's not what you're looking for when even in a voiceover career either. When I audition for things, I've never gotten anything where I'm like, hey, you know, like that. You don't want to be like that. Right. So that's not that's not what they want. I mean, I've been like the Sam's Club guy. I've been um I did that for a couple of years. That was a good gig. But I I'd be up be up at home and hear myself on the radio and stuff. And I was just just kind of guy next door, kind of, hey, you know, it would I always did it with a I had to go and record it. We recorded here in Dallas, and there was always like a real person who came in who usually would kind of take a while to do do their part, you know. She's like, it would be like a real, you know, a real person. So I'd be like, real, you know, Sam's Club shopper, whatever her name is, you know, Susie likes likes likes their meat, you know, and she come on and talk about talk about, you know. I love the meat, and you know, and so um that's that was always that was always fun. But that's been a while. Those are those are those are too few and far between, though, actually. The these days they are. So I don't know. Things really slowed down over the last couple years.

George: 1:21:08

So well, there's there's a lot more people, there's a lot and maybe maybe there isn't, but I feel like there's a lot more people uh getting into voiceover or at least publishing that they are on social. I mean, there's a pr there's a pretty big voiceover can you know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:22

Yeah, there's a very big one, and because people um, you know, uh many times I've heard, you know, you've heard, oh, I have people tell me I have a great voice, you know. I I you know I should do voiceover. I'm just like, okay. Um and I don't I don't discourage anybody, but just because you have a great voice, you have to know how to use it, you know, and you have to be you have to know how to draw people in. Um and I've worked with people, I've made demos for people who haven't done voiceover before. And um it's fun. I mean, I encoura I encourage people, I always do. So I'm not like you know, I'm not like you don't want to do this. No, I mean it's it's fun, it's great. I mean, it's it's been good to me sometimes, otherwise, you know, and I I don't I think I I need to find a different avenue. I'm really enjoying I think it's great that we're doing this right now. Um I don't know, maybe we could do a voiceover podcast or something. Well, yeah, I don't know.

George: 1:22:16

I mean, this is kind of just like a little pilot episode. Yeah. But it it's funny that in talking about a career in voice uh uh voiceover, I'm gonna talk about Mark Hamill, who's Luke Skywalker, right? Well, yeah. So you would think that the thing he's most obviously he's famous to everybody for being Luke Skywalker, but most people don't know that his uh original um inspiration to be any kind of an actor was from cartoon voices, and he talks at he talks about this at length, and I was just fascinated to hear that. Like really, you know, like he's made his bread and butter all of these, like all of these years, but between I mean, Star Wars was kind of a cult thing for a long time before the reboots and Disney and whatever. It was a it was a nostalgic thing, but it wasn't like mainstream canon like it is now. Like now Mar the Marvel universe and the Star Wars canon are just as well known and um debated as the Bible. You know what I mean? Like as far as canon of of fic of fictional uh uh characters goes.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:23

I got to do a voiceover for um like an instructional, very small part of of a video um for whatever the last Star Wars movie that came out was. I think it's the search for say the search for Spock. It's another thing. The search for Skywalker. The Last Jedi? I think is that it The Rise of Skywalker, yeah. The rise of that was the last one. The last one was where the fuck is Luke Skywalker? Um but I was um yeah, I'm part of a like thing saying um to to go to do I forget what it is. I can't remember the script, but it's like it was kind of cool thinking that um it didn't it I I kind of wanted to lead to something else, but um so far it hasn't. But it's like I guess cat uh the possibility that um you know George Lucas heard me heard me doing it, I guess. Somebody said that he that he had to approve, had to sign off on it. Right. Him and I think it's Kathleen Kennedy is the the woman, the producer, or whatever.

George: 1:24:20

So well, that's kind of the trick to this business, to anything in show biz. It's like you described earlier with Scott Strong hearing your tape play. Yeah, you it just takes the right set of eyeballs, the right set of ears to hear what it is you do and be like, hey, who is that?

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:37

Yeah, it's about marketing yourself too, which is something that I've I actually want to I would love to go into um change my career now, but like marketing is a is fascinating to me. I've never probably been the best at marketing myself. Because I've got you're like people who get work, a lot of it is marketing a lot of the time. Totally. Yeah. So um that's probably not my strong point. I could make it my strong point.

George: 1:25:01

Well, lucky for you, yeah, uh, I've been working in the digital space since 06.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:06

Uh-huh.

George: 1:25:07

Uh so you know we were talking earlier about possibilities opening up for like you know, getting yourself out there and all the platforms you could you could put your voice on these days. I I feel like um I totally forgot what I was gonna say now. Dang it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:24

Happen to me. Happened to the best of us. Uh marketing, you said.

George: 1:25:27

Oh, what I was gonna say was that um you gotta market me. You have s you have a a completely blank canvas if you are a voiceover or any kind of artist or any kind of business. Like the world is your oyster with all of the social media platforms, like LinkedIn, especially for me lately. Yeah, like if you're good enough at that and you can hone your image well enough, you're gonna get hired.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:51

Yeah.

George: 1:25:52

Like just off of that. And that's what you you you can't not do that nowadays.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:56

Yeah, I I have a friend who got me a got me a they actually created a website for me, and I'm sitting here, okay. What do I uh build the the the um so yeah, I could I don't know what to do like marketing-wise. I don't know.

George: 1:26:11

Well, you've seen some of the stuff I've already put up, like just about when I made I just made a promo, just just the the pipe dream we have of this, you know, glittering prizes and endless compromises. It's a great title for a wet for for a an episode. Um but is that a rush reference? It is. My god, yes.

SPEAKER_02: 1:26:29

It's from the song The Spirit of Rain. Right, right, yeah. So isn't that the truth? Shatter the illusions of integrity, isn't that the truth? My God. I love me some rush. My god, yes. Um, that's what that was one of my favorite things about the bone was that we could play rush. Um that yeah.

George: 1:26:46

So I feel like maybe uh in talking about the bone, like it whereas at first I thought it was out of character for the guys that I knew, like Scott and you and Jeff, but I bet that your own personal musical tastes finally got to come into play maybe a little bit, like in make in choosing the songs, because I felt like the songs that Bone was playing weren't typical classic rock cuts.

SPEAKER_02: 1:27:12

No, they were hard, they were like hard rock tunes. And I mean, um I I mean some of those bands I saw, I mean, I I was I could see myself in like 10th grade, you know, in high school, and I had a buddy who could get us tickets to the Boston Garden and the load, the load seats, the same, the same loads just off to the I guess to the right of the stage. If you're looking at the stage, and I saw all these bands there, and I saw like um I'm thinking about the first concert was the cars, but I mean we played like Ario and um you know um Foreigner, of course, and Billy Squire and all those people. You know, I saw all them. And I remember just sitting there like, why died going, oh my god. I mean, it was so it was so cool, you know. And I saw I'm trying to think the the bone we played. We did play some hard rock stuff. Um, you know, your Judas Priest and your Scorpions. I've been big on that stuff. Um yeah, I mean, so it was to see these, see these guys, to hang out with like Ario or you know, Kansas is a picture of us with Sticks, even though Dennis Deoung isn't there. I mean, Sticks Paradise Theater Tour. I'm just sitting here like this, probably because I was vague the whole time. But it was like, you know, to see that stuff, to see that stuff as a kid, and then you're hanging out with these people years later. I mean, it that music meant so much to me growing up. So, you know, and then and then college, college came and and I still liked like classic rock through the 80s. I think there's some bands I still liked, you know what I mean? Like Phil Collins was big, and um yeah, and so um, but I loved alternative. I I just love music in general. I like mixing it up. That's kind of what I'm trying to do on my internet thing, is it's because like the various rock formations, the idea is playing, you know. I pay the first thing I played was like Chuck Berry, you know, and then um uh me, like I said, when it's some blues and you know, reggae and it sounds like a show out here on KXT.

George: 1:28:56

Yeah, honestly. That's where you need that. Well well, once you're once you've made it to starting with your K and O N gig, you need to, you know, migrate over to 91%.

SPEAKER_02: 1:29:04

I I would like to be over there too. I always feel like they don't um I like I sound too radio-y for them. Like I don't mean to insult anybody, but I I don't know. Like I I feel like there's a public radio sound that they kind of want. Yeah. Like they we want you to sound like you've never been on the radio before, you know? It's like, all right.

George: 1:29:25

Um so I mean, MP for me, NPR and public broadcasting in general was once a career aspiration for me. And I I mean honestly, like I'd still love to do that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:29:37

Like, I would too. I think KXD is great. No, there I I don't mean to I really don't mean to say that about anybody on there because they sound like they know what they're talking about. They know the music, so that's why they're on there. And I do know the music. So um, yeah, I'd love to be. I think they had a program director position open. I don't know why I didn't. I think I told Scott about it, and I don't know why I didn't think about it for myself, you know. Maybe because I well, I've never been a PD, but it's like, well, I've been I've been an assistant PD, I've been a music director.

George: 1:30:02

So I think that's another great example of an of of it's who you know because I've applied between cumulus, iHeart, and K-E-R-A. I've probably applied a couple of dozen times and never got one call back. And it's like that's why I'm I in some ways I'm happy to have my corporate job most of the time because I can't even get a like I I like to think I know what I'm doing and I sound like I should be talking into this microphone, but I can't I can't get a phone a phone call back. Not even just to not because I necessarily need or want the job, really. I it's in some ways it's kind of like a like a an ego boost.

SPEAKER_02: 1:30:41

Like you want to be validated. Yeah. I I called um well my thing was I believe it was so it was 10 years ago now. It was about February in 2012, and I saw that they had an opening in production at um at Cumulus. And I and I thought that Cumulus, I thought that I had a because I had been fired by them or laid off or whatever you want to call it, I thought that they didn't, you know, I I kind of took it as a well, because I don't know a lot of people who I don't know anybody else who like the there were people there when I got there that I had worked with at Tusquehanna, but none of them had gotten laid off. Or I don't I don't I don't did we get laid off? Do we get fired? I don't know what it is, what it's considered. I guess it's lay I like to say laid off, um permanently laid off, but uh for a load, forever. And uh did you get escorted out?

George: 1:31:31

I I know I did.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:32

Um I did I get escorted out? I don't think so, but I remember I did Dan came to me last that day, and I remember it was so sad because I I remember Scott saying, and Scott had did Scott quit? I think Scott had resigned. It was Scott had Scott had I think Scott had quit. It was like before all this went down, which wasn't a good sign. And uh, and so I um so I was one of the last people though, and I remember Dan coming to my office. It was like the end of the day, and he's like, I'm really sorry, and shaking his head, and said, Yeah, we've you know, they've they're keeping two imaging people. And they did, they kept the wolf guy and John. Um, and so um, and so I remember putting all my stuff in a little box and I had this like cool studio, and I had to go back later and get the rest of it. But I took my stuff and it was in and it was like a cardboard box. I think I borrowed it from somebody, and I remember um it's funny we talked about Mike Reiner, but I'll always remember him um seeing him in the garage as I was walking out, and this box kind of like broke, and my stuff was like I got out of the garage, and he's like, Oh man, I can't I can't do a Reiner impersonation, but I just kind of shook his head and he's like, Oh, they're like just really because I'm so sorry, and because it was it was great working with you, you know, and he's like, Oh man, that just sucks. And you know, you know, I just I remember seeing him on the way out. And I thought I had a bad mark with with with with cumulus or whatever. And then, you know, think about though. So like Jeff, uh Jeff Catlin's the general manager now of all of the I mean under Dan, whatever he's the whatever's position is, he's kind of and and he's a boss. What what what is he? What if and Bruce too? Jeff, I don't know your yeah, Bruce Bruce is back there too, Bruce Gilbert. Um, and so I I I think of Don't bring Bruce into the I think of I think of I think of it like a Dan then then than Jeff. So um uh that's kind of the hierarchy. And and Jeff was and Jeff was the one I contacted and he had to do with the position. So I contacted him, he had me come in and I kind of kind of interviewed with him again. I had met him, he came in towards the last, I think, year or two that I was with that with Susquehanna, because he he kind of came in later into the picture because Bruce is Catelyn we're talking about Jeff Catelyn, yeah, because Bruce had been the PD of Ticket for a while, and then he went away to I think he went to uh ESPN, he went moved up to Connecticut, and then Jeff came in, and I think Jeff came from St. Louis or something and came in and and took over for the ticket. And um so I remember writing him when I saw the opening, and sure enough, he's just hey, come in, whatever. I'm like, oh, okay. And um John Griffin was a guy who had left. He'd been with the he had been with uh the wolf forever, and he left to do something with a family business. And then this guy named Aubrey, who had been with the ticket, the real deep voice guy. Aubrey. Uh yeah. Aubrey had had, I guess he was having tough time or something. He wasn't coming into work, and so they needed somebody, and so I came in part-time into the production thing. And when I came in part-time, I had all these other these other jobs. I was doing like a syndicated thing. Was it syndicated? No, it was voice tracking, I guess. I was doing this voice tracking thing where I was on this oldies format for I forget the name of the company. I think Susquehanna, I think Cumulus owns it, but it was kind of that type of radio where you're doing like five stations at once and you're on the middle of Podunk, you do different breaks for different stations, and wasn't quite live, but it was just almost live. And so I was doing that, then I was doing stuff for my agent, and um, but that's how I kind of got back into Cumulus. But it was because I knew people, and Cactus knew me, obviously, from before. I mean, you still know some of these people, so yeah.

George: 1:35:04

I mean, but much like you and how you have not we haven't seen each other in person for 20 years.

SPEAKER_02: 1:35:09

We've been keeping up on Facebook for a decade, but well, like if you ever saw a production thing, you would write. I mean, I'd suggest like just emailing Cactus and say, hey, you know, see if see if he remembers you, and you know, but cactus remembered me. I saw him almost every day. Well, he was up in 16. I'd go up there and I forget why. We didn't really work together, but like we kind of had like a wise ass, you know, working relationship. You know what I mean? As you'd imagine. So I can remember going up there and seeing him and John. He worked with John and and seeing those guys. And yeah, so I knew all them. And like Donna Willard was still there who I'd worked with, Michelle, Michelle 3000. Oh yeah, yeah. God love Michelle. Webjammer. Uh-huh. I still, I still see. Actually, I should say I see her, but now with this Omicron thing, there's nobody, uh, there's nobody there again. It's just like I go into work and it's so if it's if it's like a slow day and there's nobody there, it's like really depressing. It is, you know. There's a few, very few salespeople. I don't know whether they're taking advantage of it or they're actually afraid of the thing, you know.

George: 1:36:10

But welcome to my world. I've been doing this since 2014 at home. And it's it's good and bad, you know. I I do miss the excitement of going somewhere and like going to a studio every day, but uh, you know, I also never have to worry about being late to my to my shift because I'm sitting here.

SPEAKER_02: 1:36:28

Yeah, this is pretty cool. And if if you're busy, it's fine. Um, there were times where it got kind of slow there during COVID, and I'd be like, I felt like I was on call, you know, like and that's just kind of the way it felt. And um now if it's not busy, I'm you know, I'm just kinda yeah, I feel the same way. But um I'm I'm grateful. I mean, I'm I'm I'm grateful I have a job. Uh 10 years. It's been 10 years of doing it. They're doing it. So I don't know what's next, but I feel like I need to graduate to to something else here. So maybe it's being on the air. Um Cumulus is not, you know, given the given the current state of radio, it's actually it's it's a good company from what I know of other ones. I think it, you know, it's it's probably one it's one of the better ones, if not the I can't say the best one. And I don't know what you're gonna put on. I don't be careful what I say right here. But I think for what they do, I mean I think that they've succeeded a lot of I know that I know there's been quarters where um other companies have lost profits, especially through COVID, and we did pretty well, so it's good. And there's good leadership.

George: 1:37:36

Well, it seems like maybe things have changed it a little bit in the time since they took over from Susquehanna, because at the beginning I had co-workers that were still engineers there or had left pretty recently, and they all warned me against it. They're like, think long hard about going to work for for Kimberly.

SPEAKER_02: 1:37:53

There was no, yeah, there was no real leadership in even when I got there. So um they had a woman woman, Mary Berner, who's taken over, and um she um she's pretty good. She's kind of kind of, you know, she's big on morale and all that kind of stuff. But that's kind of the way I felt that Susquehanna was. You know, we had these, I remember we'd have the I remember going to that conference from there in 13 and we'd all well, I forget, I don't know if it was ratings, or we'd go in there for you know company things or whatever, and they'd usually have one of the the is the Dickies, right? Oh no. No, Dickies own Cumulus. Now I'm now I'm forgetting who owns what. Um I forget the name of the family. That was Squeana, was it the uh the I forget I'm totally forgetting. I'm blanking on it too. I want to say the Dickies, but that might be Cumulus. I'm forgetting now. But they would come and they would, you know, have meetings with us like once every at least every quarter or something like that. Because I remember the one where they said, and it was a year before they sold to Cumulus, and I think they said we're we're gonna be selling the stations. And the reason they sold the stations was because the younger generation of the family didn't have the interest that the older one did um in keeping the company going. And it was an interesting company because it was Susquehanna False Graph. Yeah, I still have some of the dishes laying around. That's right. So I moved here and I got right away I got uh a great deal on dish dishware. And uh that's what I got for my five-year anniversary there.

George: 1:39:14

I got some uh so I just now got rid of it like a couple years ago.

SPEAKER_02: 1:39:16

Yeah, it was really good stuff too. I think they still make it. I'm sure they still make it.

George: 1:39:20

Yeah, well, oddly enough, I I knew of York, Pennsylvania from riding BMX bikes, but it was just dumb luck that they were based in York Pennsylvania. That's right.

SPEAKER_02: 1:39:30

Peppermint patties.

George: 1:39:31

The Susquehanna Valley, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:39:34

Yeah. So it's um yeah, I mean, I it's just uh I'm grateful. I have a job now, I guess.

George: 1:39:41

You know? Well, still doing it. I mean, think of all the people like it it's such a bizarre thing to sit here and have this conversation because it's like it's been 20 years, but it doesn't seem like it's doesn't seem that distant because I've been hearing your voice on the radio for all of that, mostly all. that time on on commercials and whatnot. And we all keep it keep up with each other on our you know on Facebook and whatever social media.

SPEAKER_02: 1:40:07

What's weird is going to if you go to like a stars game um and like they have the ticket on I know for stars and like I'll hear my voice. Like you know go in the I'm in the meds room. It's like God, I'm like following myself everywhere I go or they the wolf on a lot and a lot of 7-Elevens it's like oh God.

George: 1:40:23

I was gonna I was gonna ask you about that. We we as as the audience in radio hear your voice constantly to hear your own voice I I know it's weird when I hear my own voice all day on the recording. It's kind of it's a little bit of a you kind of have to not I don't know it could drive you crazy a little bit.

SPEAKER_02: 1:40:42

Yeah I I no I I'm crit like I'm kind of I'm always like critical about my of myself. I'm usually I mean I'm pretty happy with something I mean I'm like I'll read I do different takes and stuff. I hate to like I hate to I hate to edit too much in my work like but if I if I read something if I do like a 30 second spot I'll you know I'll read it through and then if there's something that I don't like I might go back and just change that one part. But I mean I try to do things as I don't know live sounding as I can. Yeah. I do take breaths out for time usually um but I don't make it sound like I did. And um yeah I mean everyone's everyone's different with that but um well I've I'm just used to hearing myself like I'm kind of numb to it. Yeah.

George: 1:41:28

Well to that point you know after doing it for 10 years with Thomson Reuters I've finally gotten to the point where I don't obsess over every take. No you can't and I just one or two takes and just go with it. Like I'm not gonna be like it it's hard not to be self-critical.

SPEAKER_02: 1:41:44

That's what I love about live is just it's just sorry it's done it's there and it's out there and it's I was I was stumbling over um and not not badly stumbling but I was saying something on my little live was it yesterday and it's like I will take what I'm stumbling on or whatever and just make a joke out of it without without without bringing too much attention to it. I mean I know how to move on I know how to like you know and they say something on my breath like Jesus it's like I mean I'm getting you know I'm gonna say I'm getting paid to talk I'm not getting paid to talk there but it's like you know it it just yeah it's I just would rather do a live I just would you know well it's a lot less time to get it to get in your own way. I know I've found it with any kind of performance if I listen to it back enough times I'm like that is terrible but if I play it for the person who matters they're like George that's awesome it's George that's awesome I listened to um one of my cohorts today who's on their on KSCS and um I now I don't know if if the break was live or not but he talked right up to uh it's part of their thing is talking right talking up to the post you know hitting the post which is you know that is oh yeah that is right so hitting the post is when you talk right up to where they start singing in the song and it's like just I've never like in triple A we never really did that. I could talk a little bit over the beginning of a song but that's one of the things that um when you work in music intensive radio basically you want to say the station name then just hit the song from the beginning. So I'm not and that's what top 40 radio is and yeah current you know country radio these days is top it's top 40 format that just happens to be uh country and that's what the wolf was the originator of I guess um that was the big deal about the wolf was the I'd rather be a fence post in Texas than be the king of Tennessee right the Barry Corbin. Yeah yeah I used to I used to see him on the elevator when I when I came up and I I remember telling um I forget who the PD was at the time but it was somebody I was friendly with and I said I'd be like hey I just saw boss hog on the elevator and I and I called him boss hog even though he wasn't very Corbin was not boss hog he was I think he was the mayor of uh the northern exposure town as far as I know right was he the mayor yeah boss hog was on two Dukes of Hazard same idea boss hog I just referred to him as boss it's 10 o'clock in Texas was he always as glassy eyed as when I saw him out on remote like at six o'clock in the morning for like the Coman race for the cure at North Park Mall he's like glassy eyed yeah he looks a little like he might have been struggling with something yeah well just being as old as he was I mean he he had to have been in his like late 70s at that time I think they still use him so I don't know if they're using him posthumously or is he I don't know if he's alive or I should google that where he is wherever he is I don't know.

George: 1:44:34

I don't I think I was shocked to hear that he is still alive. He he was on some he was on some show of note recently and I was like what really yeah they were we could be totally wrong about that but I I think he is still alive but that's crazy.

SPEAKER_02: 1:44:47

Boss hog yeah so and when I get together with Scott I was talking about and um I've stayed in touch with Scott and Squeaky if you remember Squeaky John Winchester John Winchester who I love dearly um we've hung out a lot in the years since I haven't um squeaky he's gotten he's gotten married twice I guess um me too you too I know you guys are well you got to get it right you know you get it right finally I guess um he's with wide orbit right yeah I think he still is he was but yeah but um why am I bringing up squeaky I don't know I we keep having these this going in so many different directions um that's okay uh this is I see I see John well I see John and and Scott we just have so many things that we we talk about we just go back and we we had we had a thing at Scott's house maybe five years ago and I've I forget what it was for we had Rob Chickering there who was the engineer for he was our main who's our main guy the skydiving sheet he still remembers me all the I still used to bring food into my studio all the time and the time he found somebody somebody literally threw a a baguette of like French bread in my studio and I guess it got all something was smelling in there. I didn't know what it was and I had him come in and he looks and he he's he still remembers that to this to this day I'm sure he still remembers it because you have French bread in your studio and then you know I'd bring in I'd bring in like eat eggs in the morning and stuff and they were giving me a hard time from my studio smelling like eggs and I just had I just I just had Jule come in there and they're like oh my God you brought her in here you know and I took my picture with Jewel in my little studio and I remember that she's like oh you like eggs so um and John Mayer came in a month later and saw me with a picture of me and Jewel and he was like oh can you hook me up with her man this is the story is this when John Mayer was virtually unknown. You know we had these people come in of course yeah these little people come into the studio Mark Cuban used to come in there and um yeah Cold play I'm trying to think of all the bands that came in there Travis those kind of bands that we we played a lot of Poe the woman named Poe she was cool.

George: 1:46:56

I I I always really loved that era of music I loved I loved what Merge played.

SPEAKER_02: 1:47:02

Merge didn't play a lot of females though I don't know if you noticed that the bands were kind of similar it was very life house very lots of Rajpack 20 Creed STP Dexter Freebish was another one oh my god I for I totally forgot about that. STP yeah um it was it was heavier than the station I I came from because the river played some kind of folkier stuff so it was more um trying to think what else merge merge played cool rock smart cool rock smart pop yeah I don't really I don't really understood what that was so I was gonna ask you when we I was listening to we we can play some of this back but uh the merge imaging did you at the beginning you weren't doing any of the the uh the actual voice you were using somebody because I played back something and I did hear a promo of your I it switched to it's oh shit about I have to go um we switched to it being um to me it being the imaging voice at some point near the end I think when when we when we were when we had officially given up on merch like I think it was hey why don't you do the imaging you know and whatever yeah so it's funny how that all works out like from if you I'd love to hear that stuff that you have I don't have any of that stuff.

George: 1:48:18

Yeah I don't even it it it it's all it all goes back to this dude Chip's website Chip's shots and what made me what inspired me to do any of this is the fact that we haven't spoken in 20 years. Yeah but that this guy has this blog dedicated to a bunch of stuff but I want to see it yeah one of the topics is 933 a case in mediocre radio in Dallas.

SPEAKER_02: 1:48:47

Yeah some of that I screen the bone 100% so that's all you Texas round and I stole like maybe a minute of that or two from the San Francisco station because we have what's bone I used a couple of their sweepers in it but that's like incredible. So on for stuff like that I've always kind of wondered because I know your normal tone your normal tone of voice but I hear Oh no no that's not me talking but that's that's that's Brad Smart people so that was insane so the uh the drop of s uh it's not you saying hell yeah uh no that's it's called ships ships dot com just Google 933 merge933 I love doing this I did this stuff um I remember going bone music boneless music you know and I had to put on like Fleetwood Mac I'm like oh I like Fleetwood Mac you've got a problem with that fleet as a Rodney impersonator I stole the end the end is what I stole from obviously I did this station with Bo and Jim Bo and Jim then he goes on the air and we fucking ratings plummet.

George: 1:50:19

I remember that whole time too and I remember like 30 seconds after getting back into the good graces of Clear Channel him trashing everyone at 933 like did he? Yeah now legendary guy great broadcaster whatever but I remember I remember he was lame I was like I remember like the attitude when he started versus when he was going back to clear channel it was like okay I see um was it Spacoli?

SPEAKER_02: 1:50:50

Spacolian was in the start he does a show and can I went too soon it was at the end there it was Channing and Spacoli and um who else was on at night Randy James and his vest oh my god Randy Randy and yeah well Randy was with with Bo and then uh but then it was but after that they wanted to humble Billy right yep yep he's missing so I have chips oh on K D G E so we're gonna find the I'm sure it's on here chip shots I have this I'll find it that's funny.

George: 1:51:35

But it's got like a little you know little chart here to talk about the the history of 933 FM in Dallas from the zone to merge the boon to Quality Rock Quality Rock was under cumulus yeah and then the cumulus station the cumulus bone are we still recording?

SPEAKER_01: 1:51:55

Oh cool I don't think we're still recording.

SPEAKER_02: 1:51:57

The Cumulus bone see even the the the logo is is is kind of wimpy yeah it's it's corporate no offense cumulus I love you keep sending me checks and then yeah but see they tried the triple A and it was like and I remember listening to that going damn it I need to be on there I need to be on there but they had people who didn't really know the music that was kind of the issue with that I hate to say that but it felt like that um that's how Jack FM sounds today.

George: 1:52:25

It's like the same 2080s songs and like whoever it is voice jacking like it it's it's I don't know it's it's a weird feeling and talking about 20 years going by it's like we've we've now graduated from you know KDG E to uh oldies 98.7 K Love it it was playing the Beach Boys when I graduated from high school now it's playing all all of the tracks from 1984 you know I remember being in in in Los Angeles and there was a station I'm trying to think of the oldies station but it uh not K Earth might be K Earth out there.

SPEAKER_02: 1:53:02

This isn't this would be like 1993 or whatever the year was maybe 94 and I remember the oldie station playing She's a Beauty by the tubes and I'm going oh my god I'm old at that time the song was probably only like 10 years old but oldie's oldie started incorporating 80s music uh into the format probably in the 90s believe it or not that became oldie so well that's where all the soccer moms are.

George: 1:53:24

Yeah they're driving the kid they're dropping off the kids in the drop off line and listening to Prince.

SPEAKER_02: 1:53:31

Like they are well that music will never go away.

George: 1:53:34

So it looks like you've got a bail that I I do have to bail. I want to say thanks for coming and chatting and let's do this again soon, man. It's so good to see you after all this time.

SPEAKER_01: 1:53:42

Thank you. Do you need